An email I wrote to my siblings yesterday…
Do you remember how we had a locking cupboard in our old, pre-fire kitchen? Do you feel like having inaccessible Oreos in our house growing up affected you negatively in any way?
We have a problem in our house with kids spoiling their appetites by eating “special” food items, like granola bars, at unauthorized times (supposed to be for school lunches only). Potato chips, chocolate chips, and marshmallows are also a problem. Frankly, I have caught my kids eating regular sugar, powdered sugar, cinnamon sugar, and hot chocolate mix -- all straight out of the container with a spoon.
Becky is afraid that a locking cabinet might somehow mess up our kids psychologically. I’m tired of walking into the pantry to find my children stuffing their faces with chocolate chips and then throwing their uneaten dinner in the trash every night.
What do you think?
27 comments:
Sometimes we need to save our children from themselves. I wish kids could be trusted. I think some people have children that can be trusted. I don't. But I think they exist. My big boys love gatorade. They work hard and play hard and I feel they deserve a gatorade after a good sweat or some hard work. I buy cases when they are on sell for 59 cents. Every time I do this I tell them they are welcome to have one after school and maybe another at night if they are doing yard work. Without fail the case is gone in two days. They will drink 5 or 6 in one day! It doesn't matter what I say to them they can't seem to help themselves. So I either have to hide them extremely well or not buy them or let them drink 6 a day until they are gone. I only wish I had a locking cupboard.
Heidi
I feel that there is nothing wrong with locking up snack/junk foods. You can give your kids some agency by keeping the number of Gatorade's/ Oreo's that you want your kids to eat that week available. If they are gone on Tuesday, then they do not get any more for the week. So the amount of junk they eat is equal no matter how fast they eat it. That is a logical consequence.
Deep thoughts by Jarom
I like Jarom's idea. It teaches conservation. Mom may have had a locking cupboard, but it didn't keep me from micro-waving 3/4ths of a package of bacon and eating it on a Saturday morning by myself.
Jason
I like this idea of free agency and learning to conserve, however, I have children that would take their siblings share as well as their own. I don't know.
Heidi
Heidi -- You are a great mom, with great kids. I like bacon.
Jason
There is a long history of locked cupboards in our family. Mom told me that her mother had one and the kids learned to take the hinges off when she was gone and get into the treats without unlocking it. "Treats "were real special in those days as they were scarce.
My cousin Eugene was an only child. In their home there were candy dishes out with candy in them all the time. This was amazing to me when I went to visit.
I think the answer is a home vending machine where the kids could put in there allowance money to get treats. Extra money could be earned for extra chores to get more treats. The kids might then start a new business by putting vending machines into their friends houses and servicing them.
Dad
so i've been thinking about this dilemma and at first thought i sided with Jarom, but then Heidi brought up a valid point. I was then at a loss...thankfully we have in ingenious father who, i must say, hit the nail on the head. Not only is it cool to have a vending machine, but it also solves all the problems you and all your hoodlum children seem to be encountering. At Sam's club you can get a gatorade/water/pop vending machine for less than $3,000, and a snack/candy machine for a little less than $2,000. Think of the future, it's worth it.
best of luck to you all. i'm not having children.
Ashley
Heidi-if you're about to write me and tell me that your kids would only learn to break into the machine, then it's probably time to bring back the Arabian nights style of government...tell them that you love them, but you're going to have to cut off their hands.
Alternatively you could just live like the XXXXXXX's (redacted) and have food so bland and plain that nobody wants to eat anything.
Andrew
I like to think all of our foods are such raw ingredients that our kids don't get into the "snack/junk" food because it is so plain and bland. But, we have our sugars and chocolate chips and marshmallows all in places accessible by our children. I like that this point was brought up because I have always taken grief from people that say my kids are going to horde and aggressively indulge and sneak junk when it is available. My kids ARE still young, but my 4 yr old is a tough one and this is not an issue that we have had to incessantly deal with. We do realize that when we are not around he helps himself more readily to junk, but no more than a regular kid eats when his parents ARE around. The only thing I can think of that we have done with Layne is when he sneaks something or eats a treat without asking we throw the rest in the garbage. Of coarse if it is something like your chocolate chips you would want to secretly extract them at another time.
Other that this, we take pride in teaching our kids good life habits. Dessert is for when you finish your dinner. Treats are rewards for choking down vegetables, snack foods are for special outings, and juice is for when you are sick or have been sweating. When our kids were 1, 2 and 3 they responded best to a bite of broccoli, a jelly bean, a bite of broccoli, a jelly bean...I use these same concept when I am eating something I don't enjoy, but know is good for my body...just think about the reward and anything goes down easier.
Kara
Many good ideas shared on this topic. I think I would like to move in BOTH directions at the same time.
1. Becky and I would like to continue to upgrade the quality of food readily available to every member of the family (more fruits & veggies)
2. I still want a locking cupboard for serious temptation of items, like chocolate chips, that don’t lend themselves to a weekly allocation type of situation. Maybe other items could move in and out of the locked cupboard depending on how well my kids demonstrate self control.
Incidentally, this morning Jacob asked me if he could have a Popsicle for breakfast.
Richard
The vending machine is a brilliant concept. The money you give your kids would come back to the family instead of whoever else has a vending machine. Reuse, recycle. Really I am not a big fan of vending machines. I think it is a crime to have them in schools, especially filled with caffeinated sodas. But I am certainly not opposed to bribes for children. Despite the abundance of unhealthy foods readily available in our pantry, we do have a stash of candy kept high in my closet for bribing purposes. The old "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" really works. Going to Eugene's must have been like when Camrey goes to Jessie's house. She raids their pantry for pop tarts, Lipton soup and ego waffles. Why in the world would you like that when you can have delicious homemade treats? Oh well, there was a time in my young life when I would have traded a dozen homemade cookies for a bite of a Twinkie.
Jean
I would like to second the idea of AGENCY. A primary purpose of parenthood is to try our best to TEACH (not force or control) our children to make good choices when they leave the nest. D&C 121 talks about the importance of persuasion (and unfortunately long suffering). I love Jarom's idea of natural and logical consequences.
Perhaps you could combine Jarom's idea with a weekly allotment of resources that is gone when it is spent with individual lockers or locking trunks. Children could get their treats at the beginning of the week and lock them in their locker or trunk. Of course, you need to have something you can lock as well unless you want to go to the store every week. In the event that anyone takes someone else's their next week's portion gets reduced by that amount (unless of course someone decides to barter - I'll trade you 3 Gatorade's for doing the dishes for me, etc.).
It is always more complicated in real life than on paper, but from a psychological research perspective rewards are far more powerful motivators than punishments. Probably, because they reinforce positive use of agency, rather than try to control behavior through negative consequences. Life should have both rewards and punishments, but the focusing on the good, working hard to notice and praise good behavior helps children realize the good in them and develop a self-esteem that includes "I'm a good person." Too much focus on the negatives and what they do wrong does the opposite.
I might add that having chickens helps too. I'm not sure why but it just does.
Rob :-)
Keeping in mind that trying to teach our kids that they should eat healthy and keeping a year supply of junk might be hard for them to understand. That is like an alcoholic working in a bar.
On the other hand, I remember the never ending supply for Shasta Pop in the basement. I can remember sneaking down there and drinking a can every now and then unsupervised but the constant availability of of Soda did not make me an addict. On the other hand other one or two IBC rootbeers a year, that someone else buys, have not drunk soda for years. One might argue the poor quality and taste of Shasta might have effected my life for good, but if that were true then Hostess Bakery would have gone out of business years ago.
Jarom
You have raise two very interesting childhood memories:
1. I was a heavy Shasta user in my youth. Amazingly I probably surreptitiously drank them unrefrigerated. I used to throw the empty cans under dad’s wood-sided trailer in the backyard thinking that no one would ever discover them there. Carbonated drinks continues to be one of my lingering vices in life (now diet, rather than full octane).
2. I haven’t had a Twinkie or a Ding Dong in 19 years.
I ate two cold ding dongs just yesterday. (not in the same sitting) And I'm not ashamed to admit it. My dishwasher broke on mother's day I haven't had hot water for two days and I have company coming. I need to have a clean house, clean sheets and make good meals. My number one helper has two broken arms and its the second busiest month of the year. Chocolate- in whatever form is available, will always help you get through the day.
Heidi
Dad alerted me to the treat dilemma, so I thought I would chime in. Lock it up!!! Even the Lord keeps some of his blessings under lock and key. The free agency is ever so prevalent in a kajillion areas. The free agency part is how many they can earn. Too much freedom, too soon is unhealthy, as it is more than they can handle. It is more than most of us can handle, so a little unrealistic to expect little children or teenagers to care enough about their health to add that to the equation. It would make it so much easier on moms not to have the constant battle over kids getting to stuff not authorized. We (being most of us not K & J) are still learning the discipline in regards to what and how much bad stuff we want to take the consequences for. With all that kids have to deal with, and learn, to keep their parents happy, staying out of the goodies is just too much to ask. Hence, the locked cupboard. In fact, the more hidden the easier it is. Then you are in control of the when. I to HATE ruined appetites. They have done lots of studies on (too much emphasis of what kids can and cannot eat) and have found it to be a way children gain some control back if they feel to controlled. The eating disorders stem from some of this.
Kara has a great plan of offering only healthy foods, as long as she is able. I would like to see a little less rigidity for the sake of the spirit and the tinder hearts because the body is not just physical. And because I personally can't see the Savior being quite so strict in a group setting. If we could all be as strict as Kara we would of course be better off and make it easier for her. I wish we were. Darn ol’ free agency. So my vote is: TRY to be more like Kara in what we eat. LOCK up the treats. And RELAX when it is called for.
Aren’t you glad I don't get on the computer more?
LOVE MOM
Great insights mom.
Jason
I vote no on locking up the food, but for the same reasons that Elaine cited: forbidden foods can lead to an unhealthy relationship with food can lead to eating disorders.
My kids usually ask before they get treats, although we do have one brown-sugar-out-of-the-bag dipper. I don't stock a lot of cookies or granola bars, fun drinks, etc, but when I do, the rule is one per person per day. They're usually pretty good about that rule. I always encourage an after school snack, and when they get hungry again while I'm making dinner, I get aggravated if they grab a snack, so we're working on the delayed gratification element that is DINNER.
Good discussion.
What happened to somebody in Heidi's family? She commented that her best helper has 2 broken arms. That sounds like a pretty drastic way to get out of helping Mom. I guess this is off the topic of the locked or accessable treats. I second "Mom's" idea. Go ahead and lock it up, then the kids will know who is in charge. signed, "Other Mom"
I need somebody to lock up my treats right now. I guess I am of the same persuasion as my friend, Edythe Roedel who always said she could not rest easy if she knew there were cookies in the house. Right now it is fudge, thanks, Aus.
I had written an email about this and decided not to send it----thinking that this convo was over.
but its obviously not. and i cant resist a good conversation.
we are just reaching the point where ruby is climbing into stuff. she is only six. and until now , we were controlling all the food. i just caught her red-handed in my stash of chocolate, and just today had to confront her about getting into mommy's special treats. i dont mind sharing, but i dont like my kids having free reign on my godiva---if you know what i mean.
so yes, after this week, i feel that a locked cupboard is absolutely necessary. kids need to have a limit on what junk is available. my kids would spoil their appetites. what kid ( truthfully?) would choose broccoli over a ding dong? if your kid would---then i would have to say that your child will have another vice!!
Frankly this whole locked cupboard we allegedly had is somewhat of mystical creature to me. As far back as I can recall I had access to inordinate amounts of candy. Commonly stashed in a cupboard/drawer in mom’s old sewing room; now dad’s office. I would take insane amounts of Skittles, Starburst, Hot Tamales, fruit snacks or what have you and hide behind the couch in the back room and carefully assort them into piles based on their color and desirability. This operation could be performed with a bag of Doritos by dumping the entire bag out onto a cookie sheet so that I could pick out all the cheesiest ones. I was able to enjoy this ritual for several years until I was caught red handed by Andrew with the cookie sheet and Doritos in the back yard. At which point I had to eat Doritos blindly, only getting an extra cheesy Dorito at random. I too would sneak large quantities of soda up into the play house to share with my friends. At one point convincing Deanna McCleve that all the ginger ale we were drinking was indeed alcohol - but not to tell anyone because my dad was bishop. I tell you these things not to let you in on the sick and twisted mind of my o.c.d. junk food binging. Rather to say that today one might be surprised to know how much I don't like candy, never drink pop, and could go the rest of my life without ever caring to eat Doritos. Go figure
Leisel
Thanks everyone that was so entertaining. Notes of interest:
Elaine is a true mother, her sermon is not unlike what all of her sisters would have written. We take this "teaching" thing very seriously, and (as Bryon would point out about the Ray sisters)never seem to be at a loss for words. The beauty is you might figure out something that will work perfectly for one child and for another it will totally fail. Be assured God has a sense of humor and so should you.
Ok Ritch, this post is a much needed read at our next family gathering, hillarios! Everyone brought great wisdom to the matter, with exceptional humor.
I say don't buy it, then the temptation is never there. Of course we all need treats, so get better at hiding those valuable items, my mom did it very well I must add. Every home needs a bit of sugar and spice, come on.
Really though, most kids are not going to get a bag of candy and say , just a couple please, I am trying to have balance, we are all only human.
My biggest battle is when you go visit Grandma and Grandpa. There is absolutely no limitaions of any kind on food! bless their big hearts. I am just glad they live in another state so I don't have to be the BIG bad MOM every day just a couple of times a year. My kids would be obese and I not kidding! I got my boys back about 4 months ago from a long visit they had in Utah, and they came home 5 pounds heavier. Grandma thinks I am deprieving my kids of fat, because I don't allow them to go out to eat for EVERY meal, and drink soda at all times with candy in the other hand ....... So am I overreacting, or would you be a little bugged. but that is a whole other issue........ And I worship them to death, they are priceless, just lack in the health department.
I can personally say I was unhealthy and sad during my adolescence years, and I am lot's happier being healthy. I would hate to see my kids have those unhealthy habbits that I dealt with, so I want to try to be on top of the issue a little bit.
I will always remember one moment in my children's lives where I felt I was mothering well, (now I can not say so much that my mothering tactics are the best). They were asked in primary what there favorite food was, they both replied, green beans mixed with cottage cheese, the best!.......
My family moto will always be, (Moderation in all).
Good Job! :)
Savanna-
I am proud to say I do not take junkfood! ( Ha ha as if!!) Only sometimes, but NEVER would I take sugar straight from a jar!! (BLEH) I will admit chocolate chips. Like I said only SOMETIMES!!
Maddie--
I'm different, I don't take chocolate chips OR power aid. (Like Savanna) I occasionally take chips or something like that IF we even have it. P.S Grandma Justin broke both his arms and Dallas broke his collar bone.
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